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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
182
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Posted - 2014.03.26 21:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Interesting thread...
On one side there is a gullible (and at least situationally naive) person who willingly gave away all his in-game stuff and accepted the terms of the bonus room. Which probably wasn't a good example of human intelligence. 
On the other side we have a clever person who took advantage of the not so clever guy. Which probably wasn't the epitome of kindness. 
And then things were said, stuff happened and then more things were said. And now we have a threadnought asking tons of question...
Was it illegal? Is Ero a criminal now? - Ugh... serious? I don't think so... No. Was it against the EULA? Did it break the rules? - Erm... that's hard to say. It seems that it's not exactly covered in the rules. Did it happen in the game? - Well... it's somehow an edgy case. Technically it was not in the game, but it started there.
Maybe we're just not asking the right questions...
Can CCP do something against it? - Yes, of course. Could it harm the game? - If **** hits the fan? Yes, very much probably.
The answer to the last question is the main reason why I think CCP should do something about it. That brings us to another, maybe the most important question: What should CCP do?
Ero didn't really make a secret out of his bonus room. Nor is the bonus room really new. Remember the thread in GD about the guy who was podded back to newbie SP status? CCP can not claim that they didn't know. And since they didn't do anything about it then, doing something drastic now would be unfair. Because with no warnings given Ero was in his rights to believe not being in the red with CCP. It would have been easy for CCP to approach Ero and tell him discreetly to shut down the bonus room "or else". It's still possible to do that and simply lock this thread for the excessive trolling going on on both sides.
Btw, I did say last November, that I wouldn't suggest to draw that much attention to the bonus room. I guess I'm not always wrong.  |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
182
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Posted - 2014.03.26 21:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Being podded to newbie SP condition is an accepted gameplay mechanic. All of us accept it whenever we undock.
Being provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of in public is not. I just provided that as an example why CCP can't claim they didn't know about the bonus room. Nothing more. |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
185
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:I have just finished Funky Bacons blog on the matter and one thing struck me.
I noticed that it was stated somewhere in this thread that E1 stated that he has reviewed the EULA/TOS carefully to ensure that he does not break them, hence him making sure he uses 3rd Party Comms, and also makes sure he gain consent so he does not break any laws.
If what he is doing fine then why so be so careful you are not breaking any laws?
You would only check this as you know what you are doing is both morally and ethically wrong and want a way out if something goes wrong.
If you know that what you are doing is fine you wouldn't go to the lengths he has to cover his own ass.
I have seen many posts claiming that Ero didn't break any rules and therefore couldn't be banned. Those posters are mistaken.
While I don't think that Ero should be banned (for reasons I already posted in this thread, now buried on page 187 or so) it doesn't mean CCP couldn't ban him and justify a ban with the rules.
Allow me to quote the rules to make it clear (I bolded the most relevant part):
Quote:As an Eve Online subscriber, you must observe and abide by the rules of conduct and policies outlined below, as well as the End User License Agreement. Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given.
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. This alone could justify a ban as it is within CCPs rights to interpret the vague legal concept of "abuse" and "harass" as they deem fit. Please note that this is not limited to in-game behavior only.
Also we have this:
Quote:10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
The bonus room rules involve the "exchange or transfer of items in the game" while clearly there are no "in-game sales of in-game services or items".
Of course CCP doesn't even need to justy a ban with the aforementioned TOS violations:
Quote:25. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userGÇÖs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
187
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Danalee wrote: The participant of the bonus room (Not victim, you nimrod) has to show full faih. Some tasks require him to sing songs. If Erotica feels he is 100% genuine, he wins. -(emphasis mine, MB)- It's the rules of the house man, you can't argue with the house. You could leave the house if you don't like it.
In other words: There are no rules and Ero decides on a whim whether someone is a "winner".
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
188
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Posted - 2014.03.27 10:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote: The participant of the bonus room (Not victim, you nimrod) has to show full faih. Some tasks require him to sing songs. If Erotica feels he is 100% genuine, he wins. -(emphasis mine, MB)- It's the rules of the house man, you can't argue with the house. You could leave the house if you don't like it.
In other words: There are no rules and Ero decides on a whim whether someone is a "winner". DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WEENER. Who cares? Thank you for the confirmation.
If you look around you'll notice that some posters actually do care about that specific aspect of the bonus room. For me personally it makes no difference because this is what I assumed anyway. |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
190
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Posted - 2014.03.27 12:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PinkPanter wrote:
Maybe but it's within game rules and it stays in CCP controlled environment. That's what I am talking about yet you all defend somebody going RL and publicly with humiliation in mind.
**** man just send me Wester Union transfer. I'll ******* quadruple it.
In the 200 and whatever pages of this thread nobody can name what EULA and TOS rules E1 has broken. Everything that E1 did in that recording are things that have taken place for the last decade. Not entirely correct. For example: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4398173#post4398173 (There were others, too. It just was easier to find my own post.) |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
190
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Posted - 2014.03.27 12:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:baltec1 wrote:PinkPanter wrote:
Maybe but it's within game rules and it stays in CCP controlled environment. That's what I am talking about yet you all defend somebody going RL and publicly with humiliation in mind.
**** man just send me Wester Union transfer. I'll ******* quadruple it.
In the 200 and whatever pages of this thread nobody can name what EULA and TOS rules E1 has broken. Everything that E1 did in that recording are things that have taken place for the last decade. Not entirely correct. For example: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4398173#post4398173(There were others, too. It just was easier to find my own post.) E1 did not harrass, insult or use racial and threatening language. The contestant, however, did. E1 did not gain any out of game service for isk either. We have ransomed songs out of Devs before, its perfectly fine. I did not claim that Ero used insults and/or racial and threatening language. However I did point to the fact that you can subsume the behaviour in question under the terms "abuse" and "harassment" if you choose to interpret those terms accordingly.
And neither did I say anything about Ero gaining any out of game service for isk or anything about ransoming songs out of someone. Neither is neccessary to violate the TOS rule no. 10.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
190
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:It really is impossible to keep up with this thread. I left last night @ 182 and came back today @264 and soaring. Actually it's @268
@270
@272
273 Drat!

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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
192
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:
Then what are the rules. Please clarify each rule in the TOS/EULA with a detail explanation of each one so we will all be clear.
Its up to you to find the rules that have been broken, which nobody has managed to do in getting on for 300 pages of this whitchhunt. Your statement is wrong and you posted it despite having better knowledge. There are several posts and I gave you a link to one of my own posts earlier. You just choose to ignore that. But ignoring something that is there doesn't make it go away.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
194
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:We (BU) had him on our TS3 the other night, and we were arguing about this issue. He specifically said, in just this way "And can I ask where you got your law degrees?" to one of the people in the channel. When pressed on the issue of whether or not he's a lawyer, he dances around it pretty poorly. "I never said I was a lawyer. What makes you think I'm a lawyer?"
His tactics are so sophomoric and transparent it's ridiculous. But I guess he did claim to be a lawyer, eh?
I have seen several posts about this "lawyer" topic but tbh I don't understand what this is about and it made me curious. Why is there a problem claiming to be a lawyer?
Ok, so I did it. Now what?
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
194
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: When someone is free to up and terminate a situation, at any time, on less than a moment's notice . . . they are not being tortured
That is a commonly held false belief. "Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter." - Amnesty International. There is no requirement of being constrained from leaving the situation, or for being subjected to torture involuntarily, in the above. At law, according to this definition, it is a question of the "purpose of the former against the will of the latter." In the specific case of Erotica1's activities in the Bonus Room, torture is the mechanism whereby they force the victim to abort the Bonus Room participation, thereby granting a win to Erotica1. It is exactly by a person LEAVING the torture he is subjected to within the Bonus Room, that facilitates Erotica1 wins. Oh please.
You're posting your "torture claims" all over this thread and are quoting various tidbits that you found on the web. And considering what you make of it, it's very obvious that you don't understand what you copy & paste to support your claims. The only thing you'll accomplish doing that is that no one will take you seriously.
Torture is something very serious and you shouldn't make reckless accusations in that regard (actually you shouldn't do that at all). Use common sense, HTFU and stop making a fool out of yourself. Your claims of torture are completely misplaced. |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
196
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Btw, is this thread record breaking already? Or do we have to carry on and make a few more posts? 
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
196
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:But Ripard wrote that it was torture. Have you read the post linked in my sig? I would encourage you to do so. I did. And as I said before, you don't seem to understand what you posted there (for example you should look up the definition of "acute"). Besides, the ai definition of torture doesn't mean much. At least use the UNCAT definition in article 1 which was signed and ratified by many governments in the world.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
196
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Posted - 2014.03.28 06:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Somehow large parts of this thread remind me of this:
Mob

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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
201
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:with respect is it time to close this and await CCPs response?, its the same arguments now on every page.
CCP has to take notice and respond quickly due the huge feedback and feelings about this, Close this thread? Are you crazy? This is a containment area. You don't let the zombies out for a pub crawl while you're waiting for the DHS to respond. Question: While everyone is in this thread, has the rest of forum been tamer and has Jita been accessible? If so, we could keep it open until the opening of the time capsule, which may reveal some messages of note. :o) Don't know about the rest of the forums, but Jita is suprisingly quiet.
Thank you for that great public service, especially considering the cost to provide it. 
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
202
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: So even Goonswarm, the leading group in emergent gameplay, metagaming and scamming did not agreed with your actions, that says something.
With more than 12,500 members in GSF it's a safe bet that you will find people who support Ero and others who oppose him. You could probably even find a few ignorants who never heard of him.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
202
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:More like, the director says "jump", the CEO says "how high?". See, that's the problem with underlings these days. They always question orders. If I say jump, you jump and don't waste time asking silly questions.  |

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
204
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:So have you, an officer of the court, reported this incident that constitutes torture to the authorities yet?
I have not claimed to be an officer of any court. I have forwarded my view, as outlined in the post linked in my sig, to some authorities though, yes. And as someone who used to work for such an authority I can tell you what happens next. You read the claims - then you groan and curse the person for filing such crap, because you have enough serious work to do ... like catching the bad guys and bringing them to jail for example (and by this I mean tons of paperwork). Then you put a reference number on it - because you have to - check if there's reasonable suspicion - in this case obviously not - and put it in the files. And usually you have too much to do, so you ignore that the initial claim might qualify for reasonable suspicion with regard to malicious prosecution. But usually isn't always and if there's someone who is persistant in his false claims you might do something about it.
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